If Vaccines Are Really “Safe And Effective,” Why Won’t Experts Engage In A Debate?

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In the not-too-distant past, notable pro­ponents of vaccination willingly (albeit in­frequently) engaged in public debates with critics of vaccination. These debates, typically between medical professionals and parents of vaccine-injured children, even took place on mainstream news platforms. Doctors would participate, perhaps because they assumed that parents’ limited scientific understanding would not pose a substantial challenge to their veneer of authority.

The landscape has since undergone a significant transformation. When advocates for vaccine awareness started bolstering their arguments with substantial evidence rather than relying solely on anecdotes, vaccine enthusiasts began steadfastly refusing to engage in public debates with any individual holding an oppos­ing viewpoint.

In June 2023, podcast host Joe Rogan is­sued an invitation to Dr. Peter Hotez to debate Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. on his popular show. Predictably, Hotez refused. In April 2023, Ken­nedy—an environmental lawyer, writer and founder of Waterkeeper Alliance and Children’s Health Defense—had announced his candidacy as a Democratic candidate for the 2024 U.S. presidential election, and on June 15, he made a three-hour appearance on The Joe Rogan Experience.¹ Hotez, who serves as dean of the National School of Tropical Medicine at Baylor College of Medicine and as a professor of pedi­atrics and molecular virology and microbiology, has also been a guest on Rogan’s show as well as making frequent “expert” appearances on CNN and NBC during the Covid-19 events. Draw­ing from his experiences as a vaccine scientist and father of an autistic child, Hotez wrote the book Vaccines Did Not Cause Rachel’s Autism in 2018.

The topics of discussion proposed by Rogan would have encompassed vaccine safety and Covid-related policies and protocols. To incentivize Hotez’s participa­tion, Rogan even pledged to donate one hundred thousand dollars to a charity of Hotez’s choice.² The challenge gained significant traction on Twitter, with many pledging additional contributions; as of June 26, the total amount pledged had reached an impressive $2.62 million. Despite this opportunity to channel funds toward charity, Hotez declined the debate, citing concerns about the format and the potential for Kennedy’s involvement to turn the conversation into a sensationalized spectacle like “the Jerry Springer Show.”³

Why do experts like Hotez, reportedly committed to educating the public about vaccination’s benefits and importance, consistently reject opportunities to engage with opponents? If the scientific foundation of vaccination were as firmly established and evidence-based as they allege, we would expect them to embrace public debates as a means of communicating their message to vaccine-hesitant parents and a broader audience. However, the mastery of facts and science on display in Ken­nedy’s conversation with Rogan demonstrated that figures like Hotez and vaccine enthusiast Paul Offit might have a tough time convincing the public of the merits of their soundbite claims if put to the test.

Let’s take a deeper look at some of the elements of Kennedy’s wide-ranging conversation, in which he emphasized the importance of conducting thorough and scientifically valid safety testing for vaccines and the need for increased transparency from the agencies that approve and recommend vaccines.⁴

MERCURY LAUNCHES A JOURNEY

Kennedy began by describing his transition from successful litigator against environmental polluters to his involvement in challenging the pharmaceutical industry and regulatory agencies on the issue of mercury in vaccines. His interest in the vaccine topic emerged when a group of “respectful but vaguely scolding” mothers urged him to delve into the scientific research surrounding the impact of mercury-containing vac­cines on children’s neurological health. One particular mother, Sarah Bridges, whose son had suffered a severe vaccine reaction that resulted in autism, arrived at Kennedy’s doorstep with an eighteen-inch thick stack of scientific papers and refused to leave until he read them. Intrigued, Kennedy put his analytical skills to use and discovered a significant disparity between what public health agencies were proclaiming about vaccines and mercury safety and what peer-reviewed studies actually revealed. This raised serious questions in his mind about the transparency and accuracy of the information disseminated to the public.

After examining the evidence, he found that the concerns of mothers of vaccine-injured children were well-founded, despite attempts by public health authorities to dismiss the women as “crazy.”

Compelled to address the issue further, Kennedy sought an audience with top regulators and, to his dismay, found them ill-informed about the science. When they could not answer his questions, they directed him to Dr. Paul Offit—director of the Vaccine Education Center at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia and a vaccine co-inventor and pharmaceutical industry insider. In a candid and unsettling phone conversation, Offit attempted to persuade Kennedy that the type of mercury used in vac­cines, ethylmercury, was not harmful (while acknowledging the dangers of methylmercury, the form of mercury found in fish), but Kennedy was already aware that “there is no such thing as a good mercury” and that mercury is about one thousand times more neurotoxic than lead. Over time, Kennedy’s careful reading of the science made him an expert on the subject of mercury and vaccines, culminating in the publication of his 2015 book, Thimerosal: Let the Science Speak.⁵

During his interview with Rogan, Kennedy provided some historical context about Eli Lilly’s 1932 decision to use thimerosal in vaccines.⁶ Thimerosal is approximately 50 percent ethylmercury by weight, and when the company introduced it as a vaccine preservative, mercury’s dangers already were well-known. In his conversation with Kennedy, Offit defended the use of ethylmercury in vaccines by referring to a 2002 study conducted by Michael Pichichero and colleagues.⁷ Estimating that ethylmercury has a shorter half-life (approximately seven days) than meth­ylmercury, Pichichero claimed that there was no evidence of ethylmercury accumulation from repeated exposures to thimerosal; other researchers subsequently observed that Pichichero had left “no margin of safety if there were other sources of mercury exposure as well.”⁸ Kennedy handily disputed Offit’s assertions by pointing to a National Institutes of Health (NIH) study published in 2005 by Thomas Burbacher and colleagues.⁹ That study provided clear evidence that while thimerosal may leave the bloodstream within a week, it can then enter the brain—contrary to what vaccine promoters assert—leading to serious inflammation.

THE CONSEQUENTIAL 1986 ACT

During the Rogan podcast, Kennedy dem­onstrated his in-depth understanding of the significance of the 1986 National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act, a law that acknowledges the reality of vaccine-related injuries and fatali­ties.¹⁰ At least some of those involved in the Act’s passage had good intentions and established a modest mechanism to compensate victims of vaccine injuries, called the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (NVICP).¹¹ However, the Act’s principal outcome—com­plete immunity from legal responsibility for the pharmaceutical industry—was consequential. The Act and a subsequent U.S. Supreme Court decision (Bruesewitz v. Wyeth) shield vaccine manufacturers from legal liability for any harm resulting from their products, even in cases where instances of negligence are proven; nor can individuals harmed by vaccines hold phar­maceutical companies accountable for design flaws or their failure to enhance the safety of approved vaccines.¹² As Kennedy articulated, the Act constituted a “gift” to the vaccine industry. “No matter how negligent you are, no matter how reckless your conduct, no matter how toxic the ingredients, or shoddily tested or manufactured the product, no matter how grievous the injury. . . you cannot be sued,” he told Rogan.

Kennedy also shed light on the significant shortcomings of the Vaccine Adverse Event Re­porting System (VAERS), a passive surveillance system, pointing to a Harvard study commis­sioned by the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), which estimated that VAERS captures 1 percent or less of adverse reactions and deaths related to vaccines.¹³ This stands in sharp contrast to official assertions that vaccine injuries are exceedingly rare. Reporting sys­tems like VAERS depend heavily on voluntary submissions from health care practitioners or individuals, creating a database that is both frag­mentary and biased. Under-reporting erodes the possibility of accurately gauging the frequency and severity of vaccine adverse events after a vaccine goes to market.

As of August 2023, the NVICP had dis­bursed approximately five billion dollars to individuals harmed by vaccines.¹⁴ Even so, these figures represent a fraction of the actual damage caused by vaccines, as only one out of every three petitioners eventually receives any compensation.¹⁵

DOLLARS OVER SAFETY

After effectively highlighting the vaccine industry’s lack of incentive to prioritize safety, Kennedy told Rogan that a staggering seventy-six million American children are compelled to receive the industry’s products annually, with many vaccines mandated for daycare and school attendance. According to Kennedy, each time the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) adds a vaccine to the child and adoles­cent vaccine schedule, it is akin to “printing a billion dollars.”

He also pointed out that no childhood vaccine has ever undergone testing against an inert placebo; instead, the comparison is with another vaccine or vaccine compound.¹⁶ More­over, manufacturers, not the government, con­duct vaccine clinical trials. This makes it valid to inquire about the fairness and autonomy of the trials and raises legitimate doubts about the credibility of individuals like Hotez who claim proven safety and effectiveness. Moreover, no studies have ever appraised the cumulative im­pact of the childhood vaccine schedule.¹⁷ What happens when a child receives nine injections targeting thirteen diseases by the age of fifteen months?¹⁸ Although the studies have not been done, research has, in fact, demonstrated a dose-dependent relationship between the num­ber of vaccines administered concurrently and the likelihood of subsequent hospitalization or death.¹⁷

TOTALITARIAN LIES

One of Kennedy’s key take-home messages is that “Trusting the experts is a function of religion and totalitarianism; it’s not a function of science or democracy.” Nowhere has this been more apparent than in the inconsistent positions and lies of top officials regarding Covid. Notably, Dr. Anthony Fauci, as Chief Medical Advisor to the President, initially—and inaccurately—assured the public that the vac­cines would prevent illness and that a single dose would be adequate. To this day, the CDC still recommends the Covid-19 injections, even though its own underreported VAERS database had documented, by mid-August 2023, over one and one half million adverse reactions related to the shots, including almost thirty-six thousand deaths.¹⁹

Speaking before the Arizona State Legis­lature in May 2023, cardiologist Dr. Peter Mc­Cullough stated that the Covid injections may, in fact, have been responsible for as many as two hundred seventy-eight thousand American deaths in 2021 alone.²⁰ The CDC’s reported figure for deaths associated with receiving a Covid-19 shot during the same time frame is nine thousand. In a Substack article from early July 2023,²¹ McCullough also discussed a sys­tematic review he co-authored with Hulscher and other colleagues, reviewing the autopsy findings of individuals who died subsequent to Covid-19 injection.²² Out of three hundred twenty-five cases studied, they determined that the vaccine was the cause of death for about 74 percent, predominantly due to injuries to the cardiovascular system such as myocarditis (heart muscle inflammation) and pericarditis (inflammation of the outer lining of the heart).

The CDC knew early on of the myocarditis risk in young males following Covid injections but intentionally withheld this information from the public for several months.²³ The CDC now concedes that both the Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna/NIAID injections have led to myo­carditis and pericarditis among “vaccinated” adolescents and young adults,²⁴ with the heart problems commonly arising after the second dose and within a week of injection.25 A bomb­shell study published in January 2022 by authors from the CDC, FDA and several prominent U.S. universities and hospitals revealed that the risk of heart disease was 13,200 percent higher in “vaccinated” individuals compared to those who had not received the shot, equating to a risk of myocarditis approximately one hundred thirty-three times greater than the baseline risk for the general population.^26,27 A whistleblower from the U.S. Depart­ment of Defense provided similar information to Republican Senator Ron Johnson from Wisconsin, describing significant injuries among American military personnel due to Covid-19 injections and a notable 130 percent rise in cases of myocarditis.²⁸

Nevertheless, officials continue to make misleading statements about the shots’ side effects. As described in the Epoch Times, prominent CDC official Dr. Tom Shimabukuro falsely stated in April 2023 that his agency had not identified an ischemic stroke safety signal for the original Pfizer and Moderna Covid-19 shots, even though documents from May 2022 showed the contrary as well as pointing to other safety signals.²⁹ The CDC has also disregarded a 2023 study suggesting that repeated Covid-19 injections may have a detrimental effect on the immune system and make recipients vulnerable to cancer.³⁰

The likelihood of transparency from the CDC about the injections’ ineffectiveness and dangers appears low. Responding to the House Se­lect Subcommittee on the Coronavirus Pandemic on June 13, 2023, Dr. Rochelle Walensky skillfully evaded numerous inquiries regarding the federal government’s handling of Covid-19.³¹ Walensky, whose tenure as CDC director concluded two weeks later, defended federal actions across the board, including those related to school closures, media censorship, masking, and nursing home protocols. In her opening testimony, Walen­sky not only emphasized CDC and Covid-19 “vaccine” successes but advocated for increased funding and expanded CDC powers.

For his part, Rep. Brad Wenstrup (R-Ohio), chairman of the subcom­mittee, reminded attendees of Walensky’s March 2021 comment that “Our data from the CDC today suggests. . . that vaccinated people. . . don’t get sick,” noting that a CDC spokesperson had to retract those remarks three days later.³² Moreover, emails acquired through a Freedom of Informa­tion Act (FOIA) request confirmed that Walensky and other top officials knew by January 2021 that injected individuals were becoming sick but said nothing to the public.³³

Dr. Mandy Cohen, Walensky’s successor as CDC director, has shown that she is fully aligned with the agency’s contentious Covid policies. As the Health Secretary for North Carolina from 2017 to 2021, she ardently supported the stringent Covid lockdown measures, mask mandates and other restrictions.³⁴

In a June 2023 Brownstone Institute article titled “Pandemic Leaders Were Biodefense Puppets and Profiteers,” Debbie Lerman explains why it doesn’t really matter who is in charge at the agency level.³⁵ Emphasizing that the “military-intelligence-biodefense leadership”—and not public health experts—was in charge of Covid policies, Lerman argues that public health officials acted in lockstep because they were doing what they were told to do: “They were performing the role that the leaders of the national security/biodefense response gave them: to be the trusted public face that made people believe quarantine-until-vaccine was a legitimate public health response.”

At the actual helm of pandemic policy and planning were the National Security Council and the Department of Homeland Security, operat­ing under the “auspices” of the White House Task Force. According to Lerman, the Covid “catastrophe” must be un­derstood as “an international counterterrorism effort focused myopically on lockdowns and vaccines, to the exclusion of all traditional and time-tested public health protocols.” She further warns, “This ‘public-private partnership’ of bioterrorism experts and vaccine developers is not interested in public health at all, except as a cover for their very secret and very lucra­tive biowarfare research and countermeasure development.”³⁵

CENSORSHIP THEN AND NOW

During Kennedy’s appearance on Ro­gan’s show, Rogan inquired about the issue of censorship, and Kennedy reminded him that governments have withheld critical information from the public throughout history. A notable example occurred twenty-three years ago when prominent public health officials from the CDC, FDA and World Health Organization (WHO), along with vaccine manufacturers and scientific experts, discreetly convened at the secluded Simpsonwood Retreat and Conference Center in Georgia. The gathering’s ostensible purpose was to analyze and deliberate on vaccine safety data, and specifically to examine data on the potential link between thimerosal and pediatric neurological disorders. At the time, the nation was witnessing a dramatic fifteenfold increase in childhood autism rates, with autism affecting one in one hundred sixty-six children.³⁶

As recounted by Kennedy, a CDC epidemi­ologist named Thomas Verstraeten undertook a meticulous analysis of the agency’s extensive database, which encompassed the medical records of one hundred thousand children. His findings pointed to a significant associa­tion between thimerosal and autism and other neurological disorders, with a staggering 1,135 percent elevated risk of autism in babies who received the hepatitis B shot within the first thirty days of life versus babies who received it later or not at all. According to Kennedy, “they knew,” but the CDC opted to “embargo” this information and keep it hidden from parents.

In 2014, the CDC suppressed its own data and ensured retraction of a reanalysis identifying a plausible connection between timely measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) vaccination and an escalated risk of autism, particularly in African American boys, who exhibited a 336 percent higher likelihood of developing autism.³⁷ As a result of its suppression and inaction, the CDC now reports an autism rate of one in thirty-six American children—and, in some states, one in twenty-two boys.³⁸ As an indicator of the rapid surge in autism, demand has increased by more than 4,000 percent for Applied Behavior Analy­sis services (an autism therapy) since 2010.³⁹ Delving into the correlation between autism and the increasing number of vaccines on the CDC’s childhood schedule, Kennedy observed that autism essentially did not exist during his own childhood. “I bet that you’ve never met anybody with full-blown autism your age,” he said to Rogan. “You know, head banging, foot­ball helmet on, non-toilet-trained, nonverbal. I mean, I’ve never met anybody like that my age.”

After the fabricated 1976 swine flu out­break—when an expedited vaccine led to four thousand Americans claiming three and a half billion dollars in compensation for neurologi­cal damage and death—the television show 60 Minutes aired a scathing exposé.⁴⁰ In 1982, NBC ran the Emmy-Award-winning documentary DTP: Vaccine Roulette, which shed light on forty years of harm experienced by children who received the diphtheria, tetanus and whole-cell pertussis vaccine.⁴¹ Sadly, that type of mainstream reporting has long since ceased to occur, and such films are no longer permitted on U.S. television. The norm has shifted toward pervasive censorship across mainstream and social media platforms.

Kennedy is all too aware of this problem, having not just been banned from numerous platforms but also subjected to character assas­sination, with the media only too ready to label him a “conspiracy theorist.”⁴² Examples of this media tactic include NBC’s “The conspiracy candidate: What RFK Jr.’s anti-vaccine crusade could look like in the White House”⁴³ and the New York Times’ mischaracterization of Ken­nedy’s comments on Capitol Hill after he was invited to testify about the government’s cam­paign to suppress contrarian speech on Covid, vaccines and other topics.⁴⁴

Kennedy recognizes the fact that in addition to the media, censorship involves a complex network of influential entities—big money, big tech, the pharmaceutical industry and govern­ment institutions, among others—all collabo­rating to suppress what they call, in Orwellian manner, “misinformation.” He is challenging censorship in one of two lawsuits that recently were consolidated: Kennedy et al. v. Biden et al., a class action suit,⁴⁵ and Missouri et al. v. Biden et al., brought by former Missouri Attorney General Eric Schmitt and Louisiana Attorney General Jeff Landry.⁴⁶ These lawsuits allege that the government collaborated with social media platforms to censor online speech, a violation of the First Amendment.⁴⁷ The allegations involve a significant number of federal agencies and officials, including high-ranking individuals in the White House. The lawsuits’ primary objec­tive is to address the censorship of information related to Covid-19, measures against Covid and election integrity.⁴⁸ Remarkably, Mark Zucker­berg, chairman of Facebook and Meta, admits that government officials asked him to censor accurate Covid information on his platforms.⁴⁹

Even artificial intelligence (AI) has been programmed to censor information. It also bla­tantly lies, as proven in an exchange with Harvey Risch, a senior scholar at the Brownstone Insti­tute. When Risch asked “rebbe.io” about studies that showed hydroxychloroquine was beneficial for the treatment of Covid, the AI gave false in­formation. After Risch challenged the program with a series of follow-up questions, the AI finally “apologized” and gave the correct study details.⁵⁰

Censorship poses significant dangers to a free and democratic society, hampering the free flow of ideas, stifling intellectual discourse and restricting individuals’ ability to access diverse perspectives—limiting their ability to make informed decisions and form independent opin­ions. Censorship can also lead to the manipu­lation and distortion of scientific information, with those in power controlling and shaping narratives to serve their own interests. Funda­mentally, censorship undermines transparency, accountability and freedom of expression—the pillars of a thriving democracy—threatening individual liberty, societal progress and the pursuit of truth.

WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN?

In the interview with Rogan, Kennedy observed that America spends a colossal 4.3 trillion dollars on health care each year yet finds itself saddled with one of the highest disease burdens globally, trailing behind nations like Cuba and Mongolia. He warned that this is leading us to the brink of bankruptcy. Display­ing his long-standing and deep concern for the health of American children, he highlighted the disconcerting rise in chronic illness concurrent with the increased number of vaccines on the CDC schedule—from an already high 12.8 per­cent of children with chronic diseases in 1994 to a staggering 54 percent of children by 2011.⁵¹ A 2023 study revealed that in developed coun­tries—which administer the highest number of vaccine doses to infants—there is a significant correlation between number of doses received and childhood mortality.⁵²

Rogan asked Kennedy why he was running for President. Kennedy replied, “I’m going to try to help these children.” Speaking of the parents of vaccine-injured children, he added, “I’m here for those parents,” and movingly described friends whose children are vaccine-damaged. “They’ll never hold a job or pay taxes. They’ll never write a poem. They’ll never throw a base­ball. They’ll never go out on a date with a girl or a boy. And they’ll never serve in the military.” He also expressed his goal to “unify” the people and “save this country.”

Discussing the pharmaceutical industry’s influence over the regulatory bodies tasked with safeguarding public health, Kennedy confi­dently stated, “I know how to unravel corporate capture.” He emphasized the necessity of sever­ing financial ties, pointing out that a significant portion of the FDA budget comes from industry user fees and noting that the CDC allocates nearly five billion dollars annually to purchase and promote vaccines.⁵³ He also shed light on NIH policies that allow employees who develop vaccines to “pocket” sizable royalties—up to one hundred fifty thousand dollars annually and indefinitely. Indeed, records obtained through a FOIA request indicate that pharmaceutical companies paid NIH scientists, including Fauci, three hundred twenty-five million dollars in royalties from September 2009 to October 2020.⁵⁴

Kennedy frequently points out that well-known pharmaceutical companies like Merck and GlaxoSmithKline are “serial felons” that have paid criminal penalties and settlements amounting to billions of dollars; their offenses include committing research fraud, manipulat­ing drug safety studies, not disclosing safety concerns, engaging in bribery and kickbacks and putting forth false advertising.⁵⁵ Noting that the U.S. is one of only two countries to allow direct-to-consumer pharmaceutical advertising on television, Kennedy told Rogan that on his first day in office as President, he would issue an executive order to prevent big pharma from dictating media content.

VULNERABLE TO DEFEAT

Regarding the prospect of a debate with Hotez, Kennedy has expressed his full willing­ness to participate, recognizing the reality that scientific debate can nurture an atmosphere where critical thinking flourishes. It can also motivate researchers to meticulously scrutinize their evidence and theories. Genuine innova­tions and advances cannot arise without the exchange of contrasting perspectives and the willingness to challenge established beliefs. This process of rigorous debate and assessment can help pinpoint shortcomings, inaccuracies or gaps in existing knowledge while minimizing potential biases.

As proponents of vaccination repeatedly turn down invitations to debate and instead engage in censorship and condemnation, they display their blatant disregard for open dialogue and truth. Their actions also make plain the fact that they dare not engage in scientific discourse because their confident assertions of safety and efficacy are not grounded in genuine sci­ence—and the fragility of their evidence base renders them vulnerable to defeat in any debate. Ultimately, their actions will lead to their own undoing.

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This article appeared in Wise Traditions in Food, Farming and the Healing Arts, the quarterly journal of the Weston A. Price Foundation, Fall  2023

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