Get Off The Therapeutic Treadmill

Are you playing health whack-a-mole? Heavy metals and mineral deficiency may be playing a key role in your health issues. Dr. Leland Stillman today invites us to take a look at what we have too much of in our bodies (like aluminum, lead, and copper) and what we’re missing (like zinc). He also challenges us to understand how deep-seated the “root cause” of illness can be. And why it’s not a great idea to randomly pop supplements at high doses for a long period of time.

Visit Leland’s website: stillmanmd.com 

Check out the Weston A. Price Foundation’s resources in Spanish 

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Episode Transcript

Do you ever feel like you’re on a therapeutic treadmill? You’ve tried one protocol after another without much success or any significant progress in your health? This is episode 476, and our guest is Dr. Leland Stillman, a concierge-integrated medical doctor in Naples, Florida. He is the founder of Leland Stillman Integrative Medicine. Leland goes over how a mineral deficiency coupled with toxins in the body could lead to the scenario I was describing, where you spend all of your money and time chasing health. 

He points out that there is seldom one root cause that leads to illness. That said, he considers heavy metals like mercury, lead, and aluminum to disrupt our health, and our mineral imbalances contribute to the issues we face. Leland goes over the minerals we need like zinc, and those we may have too much of like copper. He explains why it’s never a good idea to randomly take supplements at high doses for long periods of time.

Before we get into the conversation, I want to remind you that we at the foundation have resources in Spanish and Espanol, including our Tradiciones Sabias Podcast, hosted by Anette and Alberto. We’ve also got pamphlets, an Instagram account, and more. Go to our website, Weston A Price for the full rundown of what’s available. Click on the WAPF and the Espanol button. 

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Welcome to the show, Leland.

Thank you. It’s great to be back. 

Hair Tissue Mineral Analysis

You and I have been friends for a number of years. I’ve noticed a shift in your blog posts and on your social media with a big emphasis on hair mineral analysis testing. Why the shift? 

I’ve been through the whole functional medicine world, with lots of different protocols, treatments, mentors, and ways of practicing. I’ve concluded that pound for pound, there is no better test out there for getting people the results they want than the hair tissue mineral analysis. This is for the two broad categories of people that I see in my practice. Category 1 is the folks who say, “My labs are normal, but I feel terrible or have lots of symptoms and problems.” Category 2, “My labs are not normal, but no one can tell me why.”

I’ll tell you a story about what woke me up to this. It was a case that came into my practice. A young woman in her early 30s in the healthcare field, a practitioner struggling to get pregnant, struggling with a severe life-threatening autoimmune disorder. We looked at her numbers, lab, and diet. It was perfect. Very few people can I say that about whom I meet without extensively counseling them before meeting them. She was doing all of the things, the sauna, red light, sunlight, blue blockers at night, all the things that people who tune in to this show by now have heard ad nauseam and hopefully are doing. Although, a lot of you out there know that you are not as compliant or consistent as you could be. She was doing all these things. She was working hard to get pregnant and reclaim her health. We did a variety of different tests.

My suspicion was heavy metal toxicity. We looked at some hair testing, and then we treated her with a protocol for that. Heavy metals started to pour out, specifically copper, which I know a lot of you have heard about that it is a nutrient. It’s true, but people will get overloaded there is this thing called copper toxicity that she was suffering from. She’s now rounding the corner into her third trimester, has not been in the hospital, and is not struggling with her health practically at all. She and I both agree that what helped her turn the corner and accelerate into healing was the supplements based on her hair tissue mineral analysis and testing. That case woke me up to the fact that this was a huge, incredibly powerful tool for me to help people get well. 

Why don’t heavy metals show up in a regular blood workup that’s normal? Why does it have to be hair tissue analysis? 

What people need to realize about their bodies is that the minute heavy metals hit the bloodstream, the body tries to equilibrate them by putting them away in tissue where they won’t hurt anything. How does this work? There are several famous cases of people who’ve died from mercury poisoning within a matter of hours to days with exposure to drops of mercury. The legal dose of mercury could fit on the end of your pinky finger. If people are exposed to the wrong source or form through their skin, it can be absorbed quickly and it kills them. It’s not that the amount of mercury that they’re absorbing is lethal if it’s distributed around the whole body. It’s lethal if it’s hitting the bloodstream that quickly all at once. 

The body is very quickly trying to move these heavy metals into tissues. Because of that, we end up with a high total body burden of heavy metals as we get older, depending upon how much pollution we’re exposed to where we live, what we eat, what we drink, how much we do to mitigate this with things like sauna, coffee enemas, supplements or healthy diet. All these things that we know to be good for people in moderation and all things. You can overdo any of those things, I should hasten to add. You’ll see that. What will happen is when the body gets run down, it doesn’t have the energy and the nutrients to get those heavy metals out of the cells and then push them out of the body through either the kidneys, gut, or hair.

The hair is fundamentally an excretory tissue. Your body is excreting things into the hair. Heavy metal levels will increase if you increase them in the diet in the hair. What you will more often see causing huge elevations in heavy metals in the hair is not an acute exposure, but getting the patient’s mineral balance right. What ends up happening with metals is that they don’t just hang out in free space in the body. They end up replacing minerals in enzymes. This is a concept known as ionic mimicry. This is not the world according to Dr. Stillman. This is not fancy wellness that the doctor made this up this morning before my cup of coffee. This is in the literature.

Metals and minerals interact. They compete with one another, and metals will go into cells and they will get into enzyme systems and they will sit there. This does two things. 1) Your enzymes don’t work well when heavy metals are on them. Arguably they don’t work at all, but even if they work a little bit, you’re going to be running at a very reduced capacity. Your normal machinery is not working now. It’s been impaired by these heavy metals, then they create a lot of free radicals, which creates a lot of stress, cellular damage, and what we call aging disease decay. That’s why heavy metals are the most toxic thing on the planet.

Heavy metals are the most toxic things on the planet.

If you compare it to glyphosate, I’m not saying glyphosate is safe. I’m not saying glyphosate is good for you. I avoid it like the plague. To give you some scale, people who commit suicide with things like pesticides douse themselves in the pesticide. They’re exposed to leader quantities. By comparison, people exposed to heavy metals like certain forms of mercury, very acutely, a few drops can kill them. 

This is the most toxic group of things on the planet, but because they get stuck in these enzyme systems, it’s a little bit like you don’t throw out your toaster that doesn’t pop the toast up high enough until you’ve got a replacement. You don’t get rid of your blender until you’ve got a replacement, because even though it leaks a little bit, the blade is a little funny, or the lids broke, it looks a few years too old to still be in use, you don’t have a replacement. The body is the same way.

This is one of the biggest misconceptions I see out there from people who’ve ordered their hair testing online and didn’t have a consultation with a clinician who knows and understands it. They’ll say, “I didn’t have a lot of heavy metals on my hair testing but I must not have a high heavy metal burden,” but then when you get the body’s energetic systems back online, you see these heavy metals and excess minerals like copper roll out of people.

We’ll see elevations that are 20, 50, or 100-fold. That coincides, generally speaking, with significant shifts in their health. Often, we describe what we call detox reactions, which I think needs a little bit of unpacking and explanation. It’s not just toxins coming up. There’s a lot that can explain that. That’s what we see. That’s why heavy metals often evade people’s notice. I think it’s why in the integrative health space, particularly, people are busy chasing everything from viruses, artificial light, and EMF.

I’m not saying those things aren’t important. There’s a lot to be known and learned about these things, but people are missing the boat on heavy metals. As far as my practice goes, I’ve never had better results than when I looked at those as the root of the problem for my recommendations and how I treated people with nutritional supplementation protocols. 

Preventing Metals From Displacing Mineral

I want to back up for a second because the Weston A Price Foundation was all about nutrition being a strong foundation. I know you understand that too. Can we prevent the metals from displacing the minerals that our body needs by eating a good solid diet? 

Of course. There’s a very old saying in the integrative health space, “You cannot out-supplement a bad diet.” I’ve seen that over and over again. I’ve had people come in. They don’t understand. I do my best to explain this to them, pre-educate them, and get them to commit to changing their diet. When they don’t do that, they’re often frustrated by the lack of results and they may not get any results at all despite taking the supplements despite even doing some of the lifestyle changes. If you’re not eating a good diet, you’re going to get sick and die.

It’s as simple as that. It’s never been more true because we’ve got more things in the mix now beyond diet than we ever have in the past. You have to have that foundation. The Weston A Price Foundation, the principles that it teaches continue to be reinforced in my practice. On my honeymoon, I read Tom Cowan’s book on the heart and his book on cancer. My experience completely agrees with his, the best single group of teachings and books for helping people understand how their diet affects their health and well-being.

There’s a lot of caveats for individual cases and individual people because you’re all different. I like to tell my patients, “You’re all special. You all like snowflakes. You all fall and you all melt in your own special way.” I say that jokingly, but it is true. There’s not a one-size-fits-all diet. It has to be tailored to each person. The higher the mineral density in your diet, generally speaking, the more insulated you are from heavy metals. The problem with this is that our environment has unfortunately developed or has a certain burden of these toxins in it.

Some of RFK Jr.’s first big activism was around mercury and freshwater, lakes, rivers, and streams in the United States because there are such high quantities of mercury in these freshwater bodies of water that it’s arguably not safe to consume fish from them over the course of one’s lifespan, which is tragic and unfortunate. Why is that? It’s because we’ve burned many fossil fuels. That then ended up getting hijacked by the climate alarmists who want to turn us all into basically debt slaves who don’t have any choice. Your audience doesn’t want that. It is an important thing to realize that the more we burn from underground and the more we refine and extract minerals and oars from the earth, we’re paying a price for that in our health.

If we’re not careful with where the heavy metals that come along with that wind-up, we create a lot of havoc in nature. That havoc spills over into ourselves, our communities, and our societies, which is part of why I stress this. Society is losing its mind, in part, because people are exposed to such high levels of heavy metals. They’re accumulating in people at such high concentrations in doses. It’s happening earlier and earlier in life. The mineral density of the diet, the healthy minerals, is not only healthy because healthy is such a loaded term. For example, people don’t know this. Manganese replaced lead as a catalytic agent in gasoline.

It was in the 1980s when scientists sounded the alarm and they said, “Lead is bad for everyone and everything. It’s dumbing down American children. We have to get it out of gasoline because we’re inhaling it.” When you inhale something, it is the best way to ingest it and make sure you hang onto it other than inject it straight into your body. This manganese compound’s abbreviation is MMT. Your body doesn’t use this form of manganese to make you healthy and well.

There are all these different little caveats for these different minerals. We have a very imbalanced mineral environment, and minerals in our diet. We have to be cognizant of this. I’ve seen levels in people now who were taking lots of supplements and leading a healthy life. That led me to suspect that something like their supplements were contaminated, their herbs or other medications or remedies were contaminated, or that they had a source of food in their diet that was contaminated.

A lot of people think, “It’s probably all these things I hear about lead in my cocoa or my whatever. I can’t worry about worry about that. I don’t have time to worry about that.” There’s a truth to it, but the beauty of having hair testing is that it’s a reasonable way to check and see, “Am I being exposed to something significant,” which has been illuminating and enlightening for me in my practice I think it’s great peace of mind for me and my patients.

I had never thought about how our various supplements, the things that we’re taking in may be contaminated. We may need to look into that. Going back to diet for a second, you use the term mineral rich or mineral-dense. I often think of nutrient density. I suppose minerals are part and parcel of that, but I don’t think about what minerals I am I getting. Which ones do you suppose are most lacking in our diet? 

That is a very interesting question. I’m going to discuss this more at the conference we’re going to be at in June, the Beyond Label Summit, which I’m very excited to attend. I’ll be giving two different talks there. I’m going to unpack this data that I’m going to share with you now. Let’s start with copper. Copper sulfate is an organic pesticide because it is not a synthetic chemical. It occurs in nature so it can’t be patented. Something like 270 million metric tons of copper sulfate are sprayed on our food worldwide every year.

I am going to trot this math out and break it down in my presentation, but if I remember from the last time I looked at this, that’s something like 62 milligrams per person per day globally. That includes 62 milligrams for the indigenous native tribesmen of Papua New Guinea, who are not spraying their organic wild caught for wild-caught whatever, wild forage food with copper sulfate. What that probably means is more than 100 milligrams a day or more are being sprayed on the crops that you’re eating. If you eat organic, you’re more likely to be eating this. Why? The non-organic farmers are using synthetic pesticides.

I’m not saying that you should go to the grocery store and buy non-organic food. That’s not the takeaway from this lesson. I have no idea how much of that copper sulfate makes it into the public. What I know is that as I’ve gone on through my training and learning different things, testing different protocols, and having people come to me who’ve been on different diets, is that what I don’t think people are getting enough of is zinc because it hits way above its weight class as supplements I give. 

What I mean by that is that I’ll give people zinc, and if they need it and they’re in the right place, it will change their lives. This is not that surprising to people who’ve been in the integrative and functional medicine world for a very long because you will notice that in almost all formulations of supplements being made by people who are deep in the literature, and not only the literature but who are deep clinical practice is there’s a lot of zinc in these supplements. Why might that be? Zinc, to my knowledge, is not used as a pesticide. It’s not used in agriculture basically at all. It’s not a pollutant that was exposed to much in nature in the least.

Give people zinc, and if they really need it and they’re in the right place, it will change their life.

I don’t see people manifesting zinc excess unless they’re taking a supplement. There are some cases where we see a high level of zinc, but I think it’s coming from other imbalances in the body. I don’t see zinc toxicity anywhere near the frequency that I see huge amounts of, let’s say, copper coming out of people, or mercury, lead, arsenic, or aluminum. Aluminum is I think by far, the one that I see the most persistent and consistent elevations in. For reasons that your audience probably doesn’t need me to spell out, it’s in everything. It’s very well absorbed. Let’s put it that way. 

Supplements help people compensate for years of dysfunction, years of mistakes, and, in some cases, years of inadvertent exposures.

Coming up, Leland goes over why it’s not easy to identify or eliminate the root cause of sickness. 

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Off The Therapeutic Treadmill

Leland, do you think these heavy metals like lead, aluminum, mercury, and so forth are the root cause of many chronic conditions that we face or not? 

It’s funny that you asked me exactly that question because I’ve been thinking about what we mean when we say root cause. What’s funny about this idea of a root cause is that if you look at the root system of a tree, there’s not one root. If you find me a plant that has one root, it is a weed and it is very easy to pull out of the ground. The more I thought about this, the more I thought about how it corresponded to my clinical experience, which is if you’ve had a clinical complaint for 10, 15, 20, or 50 years, that is like a plant that has been growing for 50 years.

One of the biggest mistakes that I see happening in people’s thinking about functional and integrative medicine, and that’s shaped the way that I practice so that I try to avoid this, is that they have this expectation that with one round of lab testing or a couple of co consultations, they are going to be able to pull this 10, 15 or 20-year tree out of their terrain. This is one of the reasons why I was excited to talk to you about this.

Terrain is a word that you and I both know and love. Tom Cowan, Andy Kaufmann, and I love talking about terrain because we know that the reason people are sick and confused and struggling is that their terrain is sick. It’s deficient. It’s demineralized. When you create the right terrain, the plants you don’t want, the things you don’t want to grow will not grow. You’ve got to fix that terrain because if you don’t, it’s going to be what I call the therapeutic treadmill. You’re running as fast as you can trying to deal with this and that problem, this and that symptom. For me, it feels like therapeutic whack-a-mole.

Every visit, it’s another complaint and problem. I feel like I’m trying to constantly hit the moles as they come up. It feels very exhausting for me. It’s exhausting for the patient. It’s exhausting in many ways. It’s tiring psychologically, emotionally, and even physically because sometimes people are doing things like, for example, cold plunges, exercise, or whatever to try and physically compensate. In the end, it’s not sustainable because it can be tiring. That’s why I call it the therapeutic treadmill. That’s where people tend to fall off this treadmill, which is why you’ve got to change it from a treadmill. You have to get off the treadmill in the first place so that you can make progress instead of treading water. 

It came home to me as I took care of more and more patients, and particularly as I delved into the minerals and then married that, so to speak, with my experience in taking care of people with diet and lifestyle changes. When you put those things together, that’s when you get significant durable progress. That’s my goal for people who I help in my practice. To go back to the tree analogy and the root, if you’ve got a 10 or 15-year-old tree, there’s no one root. It’s got a lot of different roots. It might be that the tap root happens to be mercury. The biggest, deepest, strongest root that’s holding it into the ground is a heavy metal.

There also might be a toxic relationship, pattern of behavior, or an addiction. It could be any of these things. At the end of the day, one of the biggest things that people need to realize is it’s a process. You have to fall in love with the process of creating your wellness from your illness, which is what my practice is now more about than anything. You have to be prepared that taking something that’s the size of a 15-year-old oak tree out of your life isn’t just a matter of showing up with a chainsaw and cutting it off because you’ve still got that stump in the ground. Are you going to grind it? Are you going to drill into it? Are you going to put a wood chipper together? Are you going to attach chains to it and try and pull it out of the ground with a truck? It’s going to take some time and effort. Sometimes you’re going to feel like you’ve made no progress. That’s when it’s about to break free and you’re about to finally round that corner into that breakthrough.

I think that will resonate so much with our audience. I know it’s resonating with me. The idea that we’re on the therapeutic treadmill and we’re playing health whack-a-mole, and it’s exhausting. People want to get off those million protocols and that exhausting never-ending wheel, almost like a hamster wheel. Talk to us about the proactive approach to balancing minerals. Can you go into that a little bit?

Balancing Minerals

The most important piece of what you said is that it’s about balance. No two people have the same exposure history. No two people are going to have the same protocol or sequence of protocols. It’s an iterative process. We now have a course where we teach people how to interpret these heart tissue mineral analysis tests. We enroll every quarter. If you want to learn more about that, go to Stillman Wellness. Sign up for the email newsletter and you’ll get notifications when we’re enrolling.

What we do in that course is teach people not only how to interpret the test, but how to think about the test and how to understand what balance means. What does it mean to eat this mineral-dense and nutrient-dense diet? You said nutrient-dense dense and I said mineral-dense, but it’s potato. If you eat a mineral-dense diet, there’s going to be a lot of B and other vitamins in it. I noticed that as I started to look deeper into the nutrition of what was in the foods I was recommending to people that I saw getting them the results were that it wasn’t just minerals. It wasn’t just vitamins. It was both.

One of the number one questions people ask me is, “Can I do it without supplements?” The answer is sort of but you have to understand that the fewer supplements you’re going to take, obviously taking supplements randomly at high doses for long periods of time is not a good strategy. It is a huge mistake. I can give you a chapter and verse on that anytime. We use supplements very parsimoniously in my practice. 

The reason is that they’re not necessary for long-term optimal health. That’s the whole premise of Weston A Price’s work. Where they’re helpful is when you have situations in which you have abnormal losses. Somebody who’s trying to do it just with food, living in Manhattan, New York City, in all the stress and the hustle, bustle, and insanity that is New York. You’ve got EMF, pollution, and toxic, crazy people, you don’t live a low-stress hunter-gatherer life. You’re not out there doing low-level manual labor for eight hours a day like the Yanomami Indians of the Amazon River Valley.

I get that you might want to eat that way and be that healthy, but you’ve got to understand that you don’t live in their environment. Why would you presume that you can get away with eating the way that they eat? What we find happening with the supplements is they help people compensate for years of dysfunction and years of mistakes. Frankly, in some cases, years of inadvertent exposures. You didn’t know that you happened to live near a Superfund site where there was a lot of hexavalent chromium in the ground. We see high levels of chromium on people’s tests and people sometimes who are very ill and have never been able to figure out why because almost nobody checks chromium levels out there. The hair is one of the only ways to do it well.

That’s how we created the program. It’s for anyone passionate about learning the deepest level of the terrain because when we talk about terrain theory on any of the podcasts I’m on or in any of the books we could talk about that talk about this, “What makes up the terrain?” Carbon, nitrogen, and oxygen are the main three organic building blocks of life, but it’s the minerals that we can manipulate and supplement, and that loss strongly correlates with premature disease and aging. The more you dig into that, the more powerful the evidence becomes. 

You and your practice have seen many clients, you and your team. Do people notice symptoms of this mineral imbalance in our bodies or the heavy metal toxicity or do some have these things without recognizing it? How does the body let us know? 

The absence of symptoms is not the presence of health. The presence of health is robustness, resiliency, and ability to cope with and adapt to stress. We very frequently find people whose markers and labs under the hood look terrible, who have been rationalizing, “I’ve got to dad bod. I’m under a lot of stress right now. It’s just one pint of beer a night. It’s just one pint of ice cream a week. It’s just this and that. If I can just do this, it’ll go back,” but what we’ll often see is that when you talk to them, “Why do you think it’s not working what you’re doing?” “I don’t know.”

There’s never been a more important time to get your health to get as far away from illness as possible, which means being as far away from the development of symptoms as you can. I know your listeners are seeing this. The cost of healthy food and healthcare of everything is going up. The availability of good care and good food is becoming challenging. It’s never been more important to make sure that you’re in the best shape possible because it’s the one thing you can’t walk away from. 

Unanticipated medical bills due to poor underlying ill health cause some healthcare crises. It’s still the number one cause of bankruptcy in the United States. Clark Engelbert and I ran the program we created it together. We’ve talked about this. We are passionate about helping people understand this because it’s time for people to stop having to participate in the system because they don’t have a better option. It’s time for them to understand what matters most, not just adding more supplements, not just adding more biohacks buying more gear, or adding more things to their daily routine. How do we make it simple? How do we do it as affordably and efficiently as possible?

Part of what we wanted to do in a course where practitioners can learn is how we train a generation of people who can go out and do this to have an impact. Sadly, for better or for worse, conventional practitioners are not waking up to reality fast enough. There’s a huge demand for help in issues like this. For example, we don’t do a lot of promotion in my medical practice anymore. Despite that, we still get about 100 people applying to work with us per year, but we’re busy with about 100 patients per year.

Do the math. One in ten people who apply works with us. It’s not because the other 900 didn’t want to go through or move forward, it’s that we were booked up. Hippocrates said, “If you’re not your own doctor, you’re a fool.” People need to empower themselves now more than ever because I think the writing on the wall. The conventional medical system is imploding. The people who think that’s a good way of doing life, business, and medical care are dinosaurs. The asteroid has hit, their day is coming, and someone is going to have to be there to take care of people when and as the healthcare system implodes due to the avarice, greed, corruption, stupidity, and pride of the current reigning paradigm. 

It is alarming. That’s why our audience is growing. More people are coming to the Weston A Price Foundation because they’re looking for these fundamental healthy lifestyle ways that have stood the test of time. You’re inviting us to use modern science for this hair tissue analysis so that we can optimize our health in this modern toxic world. 

What’s funny is it’s modern science, but it’s timeless. I was thinking the other day about how much imagery there is in the Bible about pottery and ceramics. You can’t make pottery out of anything. You can’t go to the beach and take sand and make pottery. You can’t go to a manure pile, take cow patties, and turn them into pottery. Pottery is this very unique mix of minerals. It’s the minerals that determine the fact that the clay can be shaped, sculpted, and molded and that it will take a certain temperature to temper it so that then it can stand the test of time such that you’ve got ceramics that are thousands of years old.

Your body is not any different. When you break down what’s being done to the global populace with minerals in the food supply if you asked me to make or come up with a more insidious plan to make people sick, dumb, and dependent upon the state, I would struggle to come up with something that wasn’t outright poisoning them in the water supply. 

I wish we could dive into that further, but I have a couple of questions and we have to wrap up. The first is, where do most of us miss the boat when it comes to mineral balancing? 

It’s not understanding this concept of balance and biochemical individuality. You just cannot go out there and say, “I heard this protocol would be good for me. I’m going to try it.” Part of that has to do with the timescale of effects. What I mean by that is if you stop eating all B12 right now, you’re not going to run out for nine months. That’s part of why there’s often a honeymoon phase in vegetarian and vegan diets. People are feeling good because they’re running on stores of things that have been built up over years and months. They’re getting finally things like magnesium and potassium that tend to be deficient in people who do not eat lots of plants.

This balance concept is critical and not treating yourself as you deserve to be treated, which is a unique individual with a unique history, unique current circumstance, and just going ahead and getting your own quantification, whatever that looks like for you. My favorite hair tissue testing, the reason for that is I can get results with hair tissue tests that cost $100 a pop that people are not getting even when they spend a thousand dollars in functional medicine labs. We drastically reduced the amount of money we were spending on labs in my practice, and therefore on behalf of my patients by moving to this test, we’re getting better, at least the same quality of results. 

I have the feeling, I know what you might say to this, but I love to end the show with this question. If our audience could do one thing to improve their health, what would you recommend that they do?

Be positive. It’s the single most important thing I’ve learned. Sign up for my newsletter because we give you a free webinar every week and you have nothing to lose. 

Thank you for your time. I’m grateful that you came back on the show. 

It’s great to see you again. I look forward to seeing you in June. I hope I will see lots of your listeners there as well. 

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About Leland Stillman

I became a doctor to help people achieve their highest potential. Whether you are struggling with a chronic illness or are seeking the next level of performance in your work, your relationships, or your vocations, I can help you achieve the excellent health that you desire and deserve.